What do people think of this:

[ethicaldesign]

I was sent this link in a newsletter I subscribe to today. Thought it was interesting reading:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=56&ItemID=6810

Wondering what UK people think of this in particular, but also those who live in countries where potentially dangerous wild animals do roam their countryside.

I couldn't quite make my mind up myself. Although it's undoubtedly going to make wandering around in the forrests and highlands more dangerous, I couldn't help but feel that it would be quite cool (and add to the excitement and interest of that a lot) if you could potentially come face to face with a bison or a bear.

The article doesn't seem to consider much how it might effect the balance of existing wildlife re-introducing these animals which I guess might be another concern.

[Jamie]

My thoughts... why not?

The main, and probably only argument from people, will be that it will be a threat to humans. But why should that be a problem, people in other countries have learnt to deal with this issue. There is no harm is carrying a bottle of pepper spray around while walking through the highlands in case of attack from a bear.

You don't see animals complaining that humans are a threat to their life, so why should it be reversed?


The article doesn't seem to consider much how it might effect the balance of existing wildlife re-introducing these animals which I guess might be another concern.


A fairly reasonable point, but this is nature, nature has her food chain and one, I believe, should be left alone for it to take its natural course.

[the_pm]

The article doesn't seem to consider much how it might effect the balance of existing wildlife re-introducing these animals which I guess might be another concern.
Undoubtedly, the UK wildlife is the way it is to some degree due to the removal of these species. Reintroducing them will force nature to make appropriate compensations, and a new balance will be created, but a balance nonetheless.

I'm not from the UK, but I'm all for the repopulation. It means for once, people will have to make accommodations for nature, not the other way around.

[ethicaldesign]

My thoughts... why not?

Yes, I would probably lean more in favour myself. I can see a few potential problems though and I think if they go ahead with this there'd be a bit of opposition to it.

It'll be interesting to see how the ramblers respond to this, and even the landowners and farmers in other parts of the country.

The main, and probably only argument from people, will be that it will be a threat to humans. But why should that be a problem, people in other countries have learnt to deal with this issue. There is no harm is carrying a bottle of pepper spray around while walking through the highlands in case of attack from a bear.

:lol: I'm not sure pepper spraying a bear would do much good (I wouldn't want to be the one to try that one out). My guess is that it'd just make it angry and more likely to eat you. I don't know much about bears but I could be wrong.

It's interesting that you mention that though (something I hadn't really thought about until now), because carying pepper spray is illegal in this country as far as I know. In a lot of the countries where they have wild animals roaming the wilderness, there are less strict gun control laws.


You don't see animals complaining that humans are a threat to their life, so why should it be reversed?

I think the issue is that for a long time we haven't had any animals that are a threat living wild in britian (well, unless you discount the escaped pumas and such - although the verdict is still out on whether they exist or not my guess is that they do judging from some of the reports and photographs of wounds people who claim to have been attacked seem to have gotten).


A fairly reasonable point, but this is nature, nature has her food chain and one, I believe, should be left alone for it to take its natural course.

Yes, I see your point, but I was thinking of endangered species that might be effected who have managed to hang on so far because of lack of these larger predators. I'm not sure if that would even be an issue, but something worth looking into before hand I think.

Also worth considering how succesful these reintroduced animals would be, because if they prospered to any great extent perhaps there might be the need to control the population. I'd hate to see them replacing fox hunting with bear hunting for example, just as scotland has gotten rid of that practice (not sure if the rules would extend to these new species).

[Jamie]

It means for once, people will have to make accommodations for nature, not the other way around.


Indeed it does. That is something I am all for.

Got to remember though, here in the UK there is loads of current wildlife. Just not the large, bang, smack, whollop type like we talk about in this thread.

[Pauly]

People with to much time and money in my opinion.

[Jamie]

I'm not sure pepper spraying a bear would do much good (I wouldn't want to be the one to try that one out). My guess is that it'd just make it angry and more likely to eat you. I don't know much about bears but I could be wrong.


Far the opposite, in places such as Canada, carry bottles of pepper spray is a must while trekking. You can easily buy them from an outdoors store of some sort. As soon as the stuff hits the bear it runs in the opposite direction, very very fast. ;) Dropping your bag, playing dead, climbing a tree, they are all shoddy ways of trying to survive.

Playing dead... well... I would try it but only if I was 110% certain I was about to be killed.

Throwing the bag... as far as I know, it has been known to work, but not very often. Keeping your bag on is your best option, if you fall to the floor you have the bag to protect you some what from the bear.

Climbing a tree... I would physically need stitches from laughter if I ever saw somebody try this at the first point of seeing a bear.

[Jamie]

Also worth considering how succesful these reintroduced animals would be, because if they prospered to any great extent perhaps there might be the need to control the population. I'd hate to see them replacing fox hunting with bear hunting for example, just as scotland has gotten rid of that practice (not sure if the rules would extend to these new species).


Very good point. Careful research would have to be done before hand. As for hunting, I am sure a ban on bear hunting would be banned upon their release (if it isn't already). Don't get me started on fox hunting though, I have serious views against it.

Just a note, I am very much an outdoors person, coming from an outdoors family and living amongst the country. Just thought I would say that so people were not mistaking me for a city boy who would not be effected by these changes.

Sorry for the double post

[ethicaldesign]

Far the opposite, in places such as Canada, carry bottles of pepper spray is a must while trekking. You can easily buy them from an outdoors store of some sort. As soon as the stuff hits the bear it runs in the opposite direction, very very fast. ;) Dropping your bag, playing dead, climbing a tree, they are all shoddy ways of trying to survive.

Playing dead... well... I would try it but only if I was 110% certain I was about to be killed.

Throwing the bag... as far as I know, it has been known to work, but not very often. Keeping your bag on is your best option, if you fall to the floor you have the bag to protect you some what from the bear.

Climbing a tree... I would physically need stitches from laughter if I ever saw somebody try this at the first point of seeing a bear.

I never knew that! I know that you're not supposed to run away from them or try climbing a tree (because they're faster than you and can climb better).

Wonder if they'll have to change the law about carrying pepper spray in certain areas if this actually happens (I think it's against the law to have it at the moment - though I may be thinking of mace which I think is different).

[ethicaldesign]

Very good point. Careful research would have to be done before hand. As for hunting, I am sure a ban on bear hunting would be banned upon their release (if it isn't already). Don't get me started on fox hunting though, I have serious views against it.

I'd hope so. I'm also very much against fox hunting :)

Just a note, I am very much an outdoors person, coming from an outdoors family and living amongst the country. Just thought I would say that so people were not mistaking me for a city boy who would not be effected by these changes.

I probably wouldn't be effected by these changes much myself I have to admit. It's also been a good few years since I last went wandering the countryside and camping (though I'd like to more in the future when I get time).

[Jamie]

I'm also very much against fox hunting


Glad I'm not on my own.


It's also been a good few years since I last went wandering the countryside and camping (though I'd like to more in the future when I get time).


Here comes Jamie's shout for Scouting... ;) I'm sure a local group could do with a new leader! :lol:

[Tjobbe]

I hate fox hunting, it is cruel and pointless, it is more cost effective to stand there with a gun rather than getting a couple of hundred(!) dogs and a dozen horses to chase after a couple of foxes on a sunday.

HOWEVER

it is a waste of money, IMHO, trying to enforce this ban at this time, because the hunters have already vowed to carry on with their way of life, money wopuld be better spent trying to get the homeless off the streets, or more money to single parents, or, or..... etc

[ethicaldesign]

They say that they're going to continue regardless of the law, but I doubt it myself. Once they have fines, criminal records and potential prison sentences to contend with it'll likely stop just as it appears to have in scotland.

Lets not take this too far off topic with that though, otherwise it'll end up a massive thread about the relative benefits and drawbacks of fox hunting rather than the article (there's a very long thread on WHT in the lounge about it if anyone wants to discuss that).

[the_pm]

They say that they're going to continue regardless of the law, but I doubt it myself. Once they have fines, criminal records and potential prison sentences to contend with it'll likely stop just as it appears to have in scotland.
There's still plenty of room for more in Australia...

:lol: