Terrorists

[Pauly]

I have strong open beliefs that they should be killed, but that aside lets talk about them on the net. Why is it that ISP's don't add them to a global black-list? I mean if people can't see it then they're not voicing their opinion globally and encouraging other muslims to 'get on board'.

[Corey Bryant]

Well I am sure there are some hosting companies / ISPs that are more than likely ran by terrorists.

Actually - did you see Law & Order this past week? I found it quite interesting.

[ethicaldesign]

Perhaps because when they start censoring the net it's hard to see where the line is drawn, and who decides to draw that line and where.

History sometimes proves that those who are at one time considered 'terrorists' are later viewed in an altogether different light. George Washington (someone probably quite close to the hearts of Americans) along with many of the founding fathers of America was undoubtedly viewed as a terrorist by our own government not so long ago in the scheme of things.

The people fighting to end aparteid in south africa were at one point viewed as terrorists (Margaret thatcher is renowned for describing mandella in those terms - though how she can do that and then cosy up to and support that bastard pinochet escapes me - perhaps because she was pinochets friend during his bloodthirsty dictatorial reign).

I don't like terrorism or hatred any more than you do, and although I would be wary of the 'just kill them' approach. Whether censoring it is the right approach though I'm really not sure. Once you start down that path then it's a slippery slope (just ask people in China). I'm also not altogether sure it would be possible to censor effectively anyway due to the nature of the internet.

[Jamie]

I mean if people can't see it then they're not voicing their opinion globally and encouraging other muslims to 'get on board'.


Be careful with that Paul, using 'muslims' in there by themself could land you in a lot of bull.

Having said that, I do agree with your statement of killing them. It could be classed as an act of terrorism itself but I for one would hand on hand love to have them stand in a line while every American (Or whoever the country is that captured them) walked past and gave them the biggest right hook ever!

Maybe this is the time to bring up the whole Iraq/Bush issue?

[ethicaldesign]

Would you have agreed with the execution of Nelson Mandela Jamie?

What about the people who support terrorists by way of supplying them arms or funds or intelligence? Should they be killed also?

[ethicaldesign]

Maybe this is the time to bring up the whole Iraq/Bush issue?

Please don't. I've had enough of that at WHT!

[the_pm]

Terrorism is a matter of perception as much as it is a definable entity anymore. Certainly there are some very vicious terrorists who happen to be Muslim. Certainly there are people who can be considered terrorists who are not muslims. Klan members come to mind, though they've changed their tactics over time to be less...obvious - more propaganda, less outright violence. These people would be staunchly anti-Muslim, but have committed as many acts of terror on others as any other group in the past century.

One of my best friends, customers and confidants is a Mulsim businessman, originally from Cairo. He even served in the Egyptian military starting a few months after the Egypt/Israel war ended. Considering my Jewish roots from one parent and Catholic roots from the other, one might expect us to despise each other. The opposite could not be more true.

[Jamie]

Would you have agreed with the execution of Nelson Mandela Jamie?

What about the people who support terrorists by way of supplying them arms or funds or intelligence? Should they be killed also?


Valid points. In Nelson Mandela's case of course not, but I suppose some may argue he was fighting for something he believed in, supposedly just like the modern terrorists.

The people who supply support, well... thats another matter, certainly should be punished but not killed imo.

[ethicaldesign]

I'm glad you can see what I'm getting at Jamie. As the_pm points out, it's not quite as clear cut as some would have us believe.

Regards the second point, by saying that they should be punished, you would basically have to punish just about every government, military and intelligence agency in the world. All of them at some point have funded, armed and supplied intelligence to people who by another group would be considered terrorists (in a very real sense of the word).

The case of Osama and Sadam are prime examples ofcourse. The US and other countries who are now at war in iraq, funded, armed and supplied intelligence to Sadam historically. They also trained, funded, and supplied arms to Osama in the past (amongst many many others).

The US (though they are not alone to be fair) have a long history of training people who many would consider to be terrorists, when it suits their own adgenda (training that continues to be funded by the government and takes place on US soil):

http://www.zpub.com/notes/terror-camp.html
http://www.soaw.org/new/article.php?id=198

This isn't conspiracy theory, but easily verifiable fact.

This is why I bring up the question of who draws the line and where? Things aren't quite as clear cut as our leaders and the media would have us believe.

[Pauly]

When you're willing to shoot before talk that makes you worthy of being shot for terrorism (In my book).

[TakingHold]

I'd say it depends on the circumstances, Would you call a soldier a terrorist for shooting someone he see's with a gun? I definatly wouldnt, especially at war in a hostile zone.

A lot of ISP's make a lot of money from terrorist groups, and believe it or not they even help them out buy offering them secrue solutions for there sites.

Its al about money now, nobody has any morales anymore.

[Jamie]

Its al about money now, nobody has any morales anymore.

True in some instances but I tend to disagree here. I am the founder of a web hosting company, I for one sure would not offer terrorists web space. How about other web host owners here? I guess they would say the same.

That makes me come to the conclusion the hosts they use are the ones that are, themselves, un-lawful or generally not professional.

[Martin]

I am the founder of a web hosting company, I for one sure would not offer terrorists web space. How about other web host owners here? I guess they would say the same.

Only if those web hosts came from the same geo-political region as you. If - for example - they were from an unnamed part of the Middle East that is currently viewed by the West as harbouring extremists, they undoubtedly would offer hosting to those individuals, because to that host their customer isn't the terrorist.

It's all a matter of perspective.

When you're willing to shoot before talk that makes you worthy of being shot for terrorism (In my book).

When you're willing to shoot before talking, that makes you a soldier. Diplomats do the talking. The cause might not be one you agree with, but the job remains the same.

[Jamie]

Only if those web hosts came from the same geo-political region as you. If - for example - they were from an unnamed part of the Middle East that is currently viewed by the West as harbouring extremists, they undoubtedly would offer hosting to those individuals, because to that host their customer isn't the terrorist.


Very true. What is the status of punishment (if any) for ISP's that provide hosting to groups of this nature? Surely they could just argue they were not aware of the site content and upon last inspection the terror content was not there.

[Christina]

Hmm..I hate this topic. Yet those Terrorist camps only keep breeding more terrorists. Young children who should be in elementary school are instead learning how to shoot guns and blow up people. Fact is, those people are already brainwashed, the kids being born and brought up in that mess are born brainwashed. It's all they know or want to know. They don't know what reason is no what freedom is. They think what they're told to think because that is all they can do. I'm against the killing of people especially children.....morally it's wrong..but how do you eradicate this kind of problem? You can't really without annihalation in some way......